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[icon] Did you vote? - Patti
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Subject:Did you vote?
Time:11:53 am
I posted this to the BARGE list this morning. Reposting it here after multiple requests.

You'd better have! Don't make me come over there...

Even if you're voting for that other guy, the one I'm voting against, the one who files his horns down really short so they aren't visible under his hair while he's out giving stump speeches, I don't care. I'd rather you pull the lever and be deeply and profoundly wrong than to not vote at all. Really. Yes, I think you're insane, and no right-thinking person with more than three brain cells to rub together would do that, and you're bringing about the end of the world. That's OK. We can argue about it later, but for now just go vote. Don't make me stomp my foot at you.

However, please don't vote for that evil ballot measure. I don't care what state you're in, really... wherever you are, you probably have something nasty and wrong on the ballot. Please don't vote for it. But if you have to, OK. I'll scowl at you for it later, but vote dammit. And I'd like it if you'd vote in favor of the sparkly good ballot measure that shits rainbows and will bring world peace. Yeah, that one is good.

Having said that, I don't really care if you skip over the section for dog catcher, judge, third assistant to the director of the transit district, or parks commissioner. If it matters to you, do it. If you didn't have time to do your homework, or your eyes have glazed over by the time you get to that part of the ballot and you can't read the names anyway, I'll let you off the hook. Just don't come crying to me when they change your favorite park from 24 hours to closing at dusk.

VOTE!

P.S. If your ballot happens to have a measure for renaming a sewage treatment plant after a less-than-beloved politician, trust your instincts.
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schmengie
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 07:56 pm (UTC)
I am complete agreement with everything you wrote (if given the opportunity I would have voted yeah for the Clinton home for wayward women)

fwiw, I had an opportunity and did vote NO on proposition #2 in Florida...
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stevecohen
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-05 02:13 pm (UTC)
Mazel Tov! Me too! Shame so many of our fellow Floridians did not.

How about 1 and 8?

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schmengie
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-05 02:16 pm (UTC)
generally I vote No on everything...what was 1 and 8 again?
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stevecohen
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-05 02:46 pm (UTC)
1 was eliminating the final Jim Crow law still on our books.

8 was allowing the counties to up the sales tax a percent to fund the community college system.

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schmengie
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-05 02:53 pm (UTC)
definitely voted No on 8. I pay enough taxes now. I really dont remember the wording of 1.
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clutch_c
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:01 pm (UTC)
We've got it here in Arizona, too, Prop 102. Everyone I know is voting against it, including the elderly straight couple next door.
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rmd
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:02 pm (UTC)
... think of
Celebrated heads of state or
Specially great communicators
Did they have brains or knowledge?
Don't make me laugh!

They were popular! Please -
It's all about popular!
It's not about aptitude
It's the way you're viewed
So it's very shrewd to be
Very very popular
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timprov
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:05 pm (UTC)
wherever you are, you probably have something nasty and wrong on the ballot.

Um.... Funding for parks and clean water? Letting the city buy a golf course? Yeah, those are a real pain in the ass.
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whipartist
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:41 pm (UTC)
Golf course! That's clearly evil. It encourages poor optimization decisions.
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timprov
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 09:20 pm (UTC)
They're buying the golf course in order to do away with it and turn the land into a public park.
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tom_bayes
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:10 pm (UTC)
I was part of the 25% of Kentuckians who cast the right vote on the marriage issue 4 years ago.
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songmonk
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:25 pm (UTC)
Do you understand Patri's argument for not voting?

I know he's a smart guy, and I understand elements of what he's saying, but I don't know what his responses would be to all of the counterarguments.

I know I'd better get my answers from him than from you, but given your request to everyone to vote, I was wondering if *you* understand his point of you. (And if so, do you think he's wrong, or is there a difference in values, assumptions, or what.)
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whipartist
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:47 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure, but I'll take a swing.

The difference between my voting and not voting is extremely small. The odds that my vote will be the deciding factor are pretty close to zero.

There's a cost involved with voting, largely time. I can invest that time on things that have more value to me, and potentially on things that have more of an impact on the election or furthering my political agenda.

As an example: imagine you could spend 20 minutes voting, or spend the same 20 minutes convincing five other people to vote for your choices. Which would be more effective?
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songmonk
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:53 pm (UTC)
I'm reading through the comments on his posts and it's becoming a bit clearer.

I understand what you wrote in your comment (that I'm replying to). I've heard that argument before.

What doesn't make sense to me is that if *everyone* thought that, then of course a large number of people would remove themselves from the system leaving the decisions up to the remaining. And (though this is unlikely to happen), if everyone who shared your views adopted this strategy (of not voting), and the ones who didn't share your views continued to vote, well, it's game over.

I know Patri knows all this, which is what confused me.

But now that I've read through more comments (and his more recent post), I see that he's very much saying, "This is how I think. Why should I do otherwise?" To which I would have to acknowledge that he's correct. But if everyone else adopted his view, then it changes. I know he does not expect the electorate to jump on his bandwagon, so there's next to no chance of that happening. And his decision is entirely rational. But if it's rational for him, it *should* be rational for the next person, and the next person. And it is. But if a million people all thought that and stayed home, obviously that would make a difference, and a few thousand of those people jumping back in could make a difference.

And I just saw your second response. So I'll stop talking now.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


whipartist
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:52 pm (UTC)
As for whether I think he's wrong... yes and no. Clearly if everybody felt this way, nobody would vote. It's sort of a prisoners dilemma problem.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

songmonk
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 08:57 pm (UTC)
I'm more on board with understanding what Patri is saying. I understood his original argument, but I didn't fully understand what his response to the counterargument would be. Now I think I do.

I'm going to continue to vote, thank you very much.

But (but!) I have been expressing my frustration to friends and coworkers and the pains that people will go through to vote. If I had to wait in line for 1.5 hours, I don't know that I would vote either. The reason I do vote is that the cost is very small. I am permanent absentee and mail my vote. Even if I wanted to defer voting until election day, I would just drop off my vote at a polling location. No way do I want to stand in line for 15 minutes, much less two hours.

To those who enjoy that experience, more power to them. But if I had to go through that, I, too, might question the value of my individual vote.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


lezleee_lew
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 09:45 pm (UTC)
I voted! I waited in line for 30 min. at my little polling place. It's exciting to see so many people engaged and voting! They were using a mix of electronic voting machines (boo) and paper ballots. Of course, two of the four electronic machines were not working. PAPER please! I scrunched next to some little guy on a desk (not a booth) and filled out my non-secret paper ballot.

I did vote No on 8. I was surprised to see how mobilized both sides of the issue are today. Two volunteers for No on 8 (100 ft. awat from the polls of course) were outside my tiny polling place leafletting. And Yes on 8 signs were plastered everywhere. I also saw a Yes on 8 truck (sides were plastered with Yes on 8 banners) driving around. Maybe they think they have some hope on the Peninsula. I hope not!
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drj0402
Subject:I voted
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-04 10:32 pm (UTC)
Love that I can vote by mail in this state.
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brec
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-05 04:56 am (UTC)
I'd rather you pull the lever and be deeply and profoundly wrong than to not vote at all.
Why? Really, I have never understood this. It makes no sense to me: If it matters who is elected, then why would you want me to vote for the wrong side (rather than not voting)? And if it doesn't matter, why would you say I should vote?
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whipartist
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-05 06:05 am (UTC)
For every single thing that was on every ballot in the US today, reasonable people can and do disagree about what the best choice is. While I am, of course, the source of ultimate truth about the right choices, I think the higher principle is that everyone's voice is heard rather than I get my way.
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brec
Link:(Link)
Time:2008-11-05 02:34 pm (UTC)
I agree that each person's right to be heard (to vote) is a high principle; what I don't understand is why each person has a duty to vote.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

[icon] Did you vote? - Patti
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