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Subject:For my poker buddies
Time:12:28 am
A friend and I are having a disagreement about a hand.

It's a HORSE tournament, (limit) holdem round. Blinds are 50-100, your stack is about 5800, and your opponent's stack is about 2250. Most of the field is still in, so there are no bubble/money considerations. Your stack is about 1.5x average.

You're dealt two red aces on the button. The cutoff raises. You three-bet. The small blind caps. The initial raiser wisely folds, and you call.

The flop comes 7s Jh 9s. SB checks to you, you bet, he calls.

The turn is a 3h. He checks to you, you bet, he calls.

The river is a Td. The board is now 7s Jh 9s 3h Td. Assuming you have no intel on this player beyond what's in this description, what do you do?

What do you do on the river?

Check
10(18.2%)
Bet
40(72.7%)
Wish this was written in English
5(9.1%)

Is your play different in a cash game?

Yes
2(3.7%)
No
49(90.7%)
γεια σου
3(5.6%)
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thorfinn
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 07:48 am (UTC)
I answered, but I cheated and asked my cow-orker that actually plays poker. :-) Otherwise my answer would've been Bet and γεια σου.
(Reply) (Thread)


markgritter
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 08:01 am (UTC)
SB has me confused (more or less my natural state of affairs in LHE) so I just keep firing.

KK/QQ pay you (but have been played super-passively), TT check-raises you, AK usually folds, AJs (particularly AsJs) could be in his range and pay you off. So it seems to be there's value, unless you put him on exactly TT as the only hand that would 4-bet then go passive.
(Reply) (Thread)


whipartist
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 08:06 am (UTC)
What about 88?
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


thorfinn
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 08:11 am (UTC)
Opinion from my cow-orker is that it doesn't matter, he'd still play the same way, on the basis that betting like that with 88 is crazy, and there's no point being scared of that possibility in limit holdem.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


phantomdancer
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 08:13 am (UTC)
my thought is that 88 or A8s is pretty likely...
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


thorfinn
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 04:21 pm (UTC)
Both are possible, but not likely to result in the above betting pattern, especially pre-flop. And even if the player is known to be a maniac better, the raw odds are on your side to just bet.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


rmd
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 12:32 pm (UTC)
i check here and then either call or raise if he bets, depending on whether i think he's sucked out and made his straight or is trying to bluff the pot because it looks like i missed my flush.

otoh, isatg.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


prock
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 04:45 pm (UTC)
Why is AsJs more likely (particular?) than AhJh?
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


markgritter
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 05:16 pm (UTC)
More likely to stick around to the bitter end?

ETA: although it would again be a super-passive play of the hand.


Edited at 2009-07-01 05:17 pm (UTC)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


prock
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 05:51 pm (UTC)
I would think AsJs would play the hand *more* agro, thus making AhJh a more likely hand than AsJs. Top pair plus a flush draw is probably worth a k/r at some point.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


jpmassar
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 10:33 pm (UTC)
It would be extremely interesting for AhJh to be more likely than
ANY hand considering the hero raised with two red aces.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


prock
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 10:43 pm (UTC)
Miss the Jh on the board?

AcJc if you will. The suit of the non-spade hand is immaterial to the question.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


jpmassar
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 10:59 pm (UTC)
I'm so confused.

You previously mention AhJh twice in two different comments, and that hand is doubly impossible, once by my logic and once by yours.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


prock
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-02 02:06 am (UTC)
I'm so confused.

Clearly. Focus on the forest, not the trees.

And speaking of trees. If you're going to pick nits about card removal, don't get it wrong next time.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Mark Rafn [dagon.net]
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 08:26 am (UTC)
I don't think you have much bluff equity (not many better hands that'll fold to the river bet), and if called I think you're more likely to be beat than to be ahead.

So I check it down and see what he's got.
(Reply) (Thread)


adb_foldem
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 08:28 am (UTC)
Opp could easily have As+K,Q or Js, plus QQ & KK. You have to get chips sometime and this looks like a good spot.
(Reply) (Thread)

oscarmc
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 09:22 am (UTC)
what do you do?

I guess villian checked to you on river? easy bet
(Reply) (Thread)


cork_dork
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 11:27 am (UTC)
Depending on the relative looseness of the game, the sb could have as little as AJs, and as much as a set in this situation. The lesser hands will likely fold, while the better hands will checkraise you -- it's pretty obvious that you're holding AA or KK. There's no real value in betting here, as I see it.
(Reply) (Thread)


davidjacob
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 02:07 pm (UTC)
Bet and I don't think it's close. Only way I wouldn't bet is if the rest of the table didn't know the rules of the other 4 games, in which I would probably back off from playing huge hold'em pots. I would expect to win vs an unimproved AK nearly 100% of the time. The SB cap pre and check flop (with no turn checkraise) is a very very strange betting pattern.

I make no changes cash or tourney - if he checkraises river, I just call either way.
(Reply) (Thread)


abostick59
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 03:55 pm (UTC)
This hand is completely standard. Bet the river. Take this person to Value Town.
(Reply) (Thread)


jcdill
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 04:13 pm (UTC)
A friend and I are having a disagreement about a hand.

It's a HORSE


A hand is 4 inches.

tournament, (limit) holdem round.



(Emily Litella voice)

Oh, that's very different... Never mind.

(/voice)
(Reply) (Thread)


frankbrabec
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-01 04:50 pm (UTC)
I voted bet.

I initially put the SB on AJ spades, now I'm thinking maybe KQ of spades.

Busted spade draw, in any event.

I'm at a disadvantage. I can't look into his soul online :-)

Frank/NUT-Z
(Reply) (Thread)

(Deleted comment)
tiltcity
Link:(Link)
Time:2009-07-02 02:56 am (UTC)
why, it's the fundamental theorem of poker!
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

[icon] For my poker buddies - Patti
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