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Subject:About the triple draw hand
Time:05:52 pm
I posted about a triple draw hand recently.

As it turns out, I was the one in the small blind with 7532, and caught a 6 on the first draw. I was reasonably happy with my hand until my opponent put in the fourth bet after the first draw. At that point, I thought I had to seriously consider the possibility that I was beaten. I thought that a sane, solid player could only make that bet with a fairly narrow range of hands, probably all of them 7s. If he has a 7, I'm probably behind. The only question was whether he was a solid, sane player or not, and I had no information-- an online 5-10 game is about where you start running into people who know how to play.

I decided that check-call was probably a reasonable play at that point. There was no chance in hell I was folding, but I didn't feel like pouring a lot more money in. If he has a worse hand I don't want him to break and draw, and if he has a better hand I want to lose the minimum.

In discussing this with someone, I got called a nit. He said that he wouldn't play 76532 any differently from 75432. That felt pretty maniacal to me-- it seems that there's a pretty big difference between sevens in TD. (In single draw, sure. I'll pour a lot of money in with any 7.)

In retrospect, it seems reasonable that I might have bet the second draw, and call down if I get raised. I think the check call is not wildly conservative, though.
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timprov
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Time:2009-08-26 01:30 am (UTC)
Checking and calling down is entirely reasonable, especially against the sort of player who will raise for information and might find a fold or a break if you put in more action.

Bet-calling instead of checkraising is flat-out terrible, though. 100% of players are betting 100% of their range in this spot.
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sabyl
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Time:2009-09-02 09:04 am (UTC)
Bet-calling instead of checkraising is flat-out terrible, though. 100% of players are betting 100% of their range in this spot.

I disagree. As the SB I am getting worried that I don't have the best hand and I can't go anywhere. If I check raise I risk getting 3-bet when beat. My exposure is max 2 bets by betting out.
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sabyl
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Time:2009-09-02 09:06 am (UTC)
I should clarify. I am talking about after the 2nd draw. After the 1st draw I agree that check-raising is better then betting out most of the time.
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timprov
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Time:2009-09-02 06:16 pm (UTC)
That just doesn't make any sense. If his bet doesn't change his range at all, then either you're sufficiently ahead of it to put in more action, in which case you should check-raise, or you're not, in which case you should check-call. Bet-calling is never correct.

The bet after the first draw makes some sense because you can usually bet-threebet.
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spidurman
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Time:2009-08-26 03:43 pm (UTC)
This reminds me of the hand I posted recently where I argued that check-calling with quads in PLO was correct because he was playing like he had the nuts (straight/royal flush).

Check-call is reasonable given that you are never breaking and never folding, and are extremely uncertain as to your relative strength.
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sabyl
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Time:2009-09-02 09:03 am (UTC)
Wow the guy 4 bet his 87 - that's pretty bad IMO. Did he put in bets on every street? I think bet out turn call down if raised on turn is fine as is a check call approach as the 4 bet is pretty strong there and I'd expect a player 4 betting there to bet the turn for sure and probably the river. If not you earned that river big bet by the 3-4 bet sequence that happened after the 1st draw. If for some reason the 87 guy checks behind the turn then I value bet the river.
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sabyl
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Time:2009-09-02 06:56 pm (UTC)
You may be sufficiently ahead to check raise, but against most opponents you are not significantly ahead of a 3 bet on the turn. And you risk the weaker opponent just giving up or breaking and drawing to beat you. With a 76 you don't want to convince your opponent to break.
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