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[icon] Random thoughts on the current political hullabaloo - Patti
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Subject:Random thoughts on the current political hullabaloo
Time:11:16 pm
I absolutely believe that the people creating the so-called ground zero mosque (which is neither at ground zero nor a mosque) should be allowed to do so. If the United States is going to preach freedom of religion then it should do so with an even hand and equal tolerance for all religions. I'm saddened by the fact that so many Americans don't see this.

As a non-religious person, my intuition is to extend the argument that is being made by some Americans right now. "9/11 was perpetrated by religious extremists. If you're going to block this facility, block all religious facilities within a certain range of ground zero." Lumping all religions together is really no different in my eyes than lumping all Muslims together.

On the other hand, the emotional reaction to this is real. Some people are deeply offended at the notion of this facility being built, even if that emotion is being created and fed by mainstream media. While I believe that the builders are well within their rights to build the facility, they should probably factor the feelings of others into their decision. If this is truly intended to be used as a center for religious outreach and mutual understanding, then continuing with plans to build it in the current climate would seem to be counter-productive. Perhaps the right thing to do would be for them to politely change their plans. "We believe that we have the right to build this facility, but we do not wish to cause more pain to the people who are clearly upset by it. We are therefore withdrawing our plans and instead will build the facility on (some other land that we've scrambled to find.)"

What I predict will happen if the facility gets built: it will be the target for Christian extremeists and Christian terrorists. I will go out on a limb and predict that the mainstream media will not call them Christian extremeists, and they absolutely will not use the words Christian terrorists.
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schmengie
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Time:2010-08-27 10:54 am (UTC)
While I believe that the builders are well within their rights to build the facility, they should probably factor the feelings of others into their decision. If this is truly intended to be used as a center for religious outreach and mutual understanding, then continuing with plans to build it in the current climate would seem to be counter-productive. Perhaps the right thing to do would be for them to politely change their plans.

+1
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tigerknight
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 08:22 pm (UTC)
I disagree with this on the notion that by bowing to unjustified (and it IS unjustified, the people building this multifunction center were NOT the ones responsible for 9/11) outrage they are giving credibility and power to that load of crap coming from mainstream media dip-shit talking heads.

I think they should stand up for themselves and speak out for their right to practice/build/whatever according to the freedoms that it supposedly means to be American. All that it portrays when you bow to that kind of sentiment and pressure is a sense of self shame.
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adbjupe
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 11:32 am (UTC)
Like you asked yesterday, how far away is a safe enough location?

I have no answer to the overall problem except for being stubbornly in favor of the location. I fear the demagogues will continue their demagoguery whatever location you pick in Manhattan. Perhaps north of Central Park would be okay since that is already in another country.
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mjosephb
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 02:27 pm (UTC)
It is my understanding they got the building "real cheap" - other locations in Manhattan would cost more.
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(Deleted comment)

clutch_c
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 01:53 pm (UTC)
I think your position is reasonable, and if that were the logic the mosque-opposers were using I would be sympathetic.

However, it looks to me like opposition is motivated by hatred, pure and simple.

I also agree with your prediction about the threat from right-wing terrorists.

I will quibble with using the term "mainstream media." This is a term the right traditionally uses to describe media that they believe has a progressive bias. I don't think this media has really led opposition to the "mosque," although they have provided coverage that has encouraged opposing groups to stake out positions. Most of the opposition leadership is provided by Fox News, the Tea Party and hateful bloggers.
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whipartist
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 08:25 pm (UTC)
Every news outlet is calling it the "ground zero mosque". Though Fox may be fanning the flames the hardest, I think that the press as a whole is culpable on this one.
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grey_evil_twin
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 01:55 pm (UTC)
I'm a bit astonished at the ruckus this is causing in the States. You guys are better than that. But this happens here too. I can't point a finger without pointing one back. Locals in the west of Sydney blocked the building of an Islamic high school in their area. They used the excuses of "planning and traffic management" in the council. This was bullshit. Outside the council chambers were people draped in Australian flags(this misuse absolutely makes me gag) and lots of "we don't want them here!" I was ashamed.

We have a heap of religious schools of many denominations throughout Sydney. I'm a non religious person. But if people want their kids to go to a religious school, that's a matter for them. But I know for a fact that if that was a Catholic high school or anything BUT Islamic, it would have had no prob at all.

I know that its the proximity to Ground Zero in your case that has added to the controversy. But like your mate says, how far is too close? The distance will get further and further...
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grey_evil_twin
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-28 12:03 am (UTC)
Yup, thats familiar. I was heartened by the number of people here equally appalled as I was over the rejection of the Islamic school's building application. The images on the telly were quite ugly. So much hate.

My brother and his wife live down the road from the mosque at Lakemba. An Islamic primary school is across the street. There is no issue, at all. Oh, except the school got the garbage trucks to come round later in the morning when my brother was at work, so that they wouldn't get woken up too early.
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jpmassar
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 06:07 pm (UTC)


Edited at 2010-08-27 06:08 pm (UTC)
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adb_foldem
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 06:34 pm (UTC)
Knowing New Yorkers, if the Center gets built, it will be forgotten in about a month.
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luckylefty
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-27 07:33 pm (UTC)
Suppose that the emotional reaction was to building a mosque anywhere in Manhattan; would you suggest that they change their plans and build in the Bronx?

Suppose that the emotional reaction was to building a mosque anywhere in New York state; would you suggest that they change their plans and build in Connecticut?

Suppose that the emotional reaction was to building a mosque anywhere in the US? would you suggest that they change their plans and build in Canada?

Rather than giving me an exact answer, explain how you would calculate the radius around Ground Zero within which you would say that the center should withdraw their plans and relocate because of the emotional reaction.

(Not sure I disagree with you; just pointing out that the "exactly where would you draw the line and how would you calculate it?" is more of a debater's trick than a good argument).
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filthy_habit
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-28 12:54 am (UTC)
I've been wasting way too much time trying to articulate my feelings on this matter, and then Zinnia Jones saved the day by stating my thoughts exactly:



Basically, if you have $100M to spend, spend it on something worthwhile, eh?
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loser_variable
Link:(Link)
Time:2010-08-29 03:46 am (UTC)
We don't think 100% alike, but the number is high. High enough that you ought to be concerned.
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[icon] Random thoughts on the current political hullabaloo - Patti
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